Tuesday, June 16, 2009

Vine Deloria Jr. On Racism In Science



"Watch the newspapers for more startling admissions that all is not right in Western Hemisphere prehistory and ask your local scholar to provide evidence for the fantastic scenarios that are being passed off as 'science.' You will enjoy watching them squirm and change the subject." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"Like almost everyone else in America, I grew up believing the myth of the objective scientist. Fortunately I was raised on the edges of two very distinct cultures, western European and American Indian...." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"As time passed I became an avid reader of popular scientific books, wanting to know as much as I could about the world in which I lived. Gradually I began to see a pattern of nonsense in much scientific writing. Scientific explanations given regarding the origins or functioning of various phenomena simply didn't make sense." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"A good many of our problems today are a result of the perpetuation of dreadfully outmoded beliefs derived from the Near Eastern/European past that do not correspond to what our science is discovering today or to the remembered experiences of non-Western peoples across the globe." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"More important for our purposes, while not forgetting the horrors of some scientific behavior, is the impact of scientific doctrine on the status of Indians in American society. Regardless of what Indians have said concerning their origins, their migrations, their experiences with birds, animals, lands, waters, mountains, and other peoples, the scientists have maintained a stranglehold on the definitions of what respectable and reliable human experiences are. The Indian explanation is always cast aside as superstition, precluding Indians from having an acceptable status as human beings, and reducing them in the eyes of educated people to a prehuman level of ignorance. Indians must simply take whatever status they have been granted by scientists at that point at which they have become acceptable to science." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"The stereotypical image of the American Indian as childlike, superstitious creatures still remains in the popular American mind -- a subhuman species that really has no feelings, values, or inherent worth. The attitude permeates American society because Americans have been taught that 'scientists' are always right, that they have no personal biases, and that they do not lie...." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"Scientists may not have intended to portray Indians as animals rather than humans, but their insistence that Indians are outside the mainstream of human experience produces precisely these reactions in the public mind." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"This book [Red Earth White Lies] deals with some of the problems created for American Indians by science. We will encounter a number of amazing inconsistencies in the manner in which science describes the world we live in and the role it has chosen for American Indians to play in a largely fictional scenario describing prehistoric North America. It is not enough, however, to demonstrate the fallacies of Western science. I will offer an alternative view of North American history as seen through the eyes and memories of American Indians." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"Some efforts have already been made in a number of fields to investigate the knowledge of tribal peoples and incorporate it into modern scientific explanations. Thor Heyerdahl was one of the first people to show, by repeating the event, that ancient peoples could well have travelled by sea to various parts of the globe. ... Recognizing that Indians may have been capable of building boats seems a minor step forward until we remember that for almost two centuries scientific doctrine required that Indians come by land because they were incapable of building rafts. Polynesian voyages of considerable distances have now been duplicated, giving credence to the idea that Hawaiian tales of sea voyages were not superstitious ways of discussing ocean currents. Critical in this respect is the fact that Hawaiians would not be believed until a white man had duplicated the feat." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"In methodological terms there is a major problem in bringing non-Western traditions within the scope of serious scientific perspective, and that is the inherent racism in academia and in scientific circles. Some of the racism is doctrinaire and unforgiving -- for instance, the belief that, for a person and/or community possessing any knowledge that is not white/Western in origin, the data is unreliable. A corollary of this belief is that non-Western peoples tend to be excitable, are subjective and not objective, and consequently are unreliable observers. Other attitudes encompass the idea that non-Western knowledge, while interesting, is a lucky correspondence between what science has 'proved' and what these people discovered by chance." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"The bottom line about the information possessed by non-Western peoples is that the information becomes valid only when offered by a white scholar recognized by the academic establishment; in effect, the color of the skin guarantees scientific objectivity." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"Unfortunately, the day of the philosopher in Western society has passed ...." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"Lying by a scout was a dreadful act punished by death or banishment. A remarkably high percentage of scouts also became the great storytellers and were repositories of the oral tradition." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"But even labeling a site as astronomical is an improvement, since it partially sidesteps the old stereotype of Indians being primitive and ignorant savages." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"At the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Chicago in 1992, there was a panel presentation of a new field called 'zoopharmacognosy,' which is a term describing the use of medicinal plants by animals. The panel got a laudatory review in a Newsweek article, which described fearless scientists spying on sick animals and observing them using certain plants to cure themselves. A Duke University primatologist was quoted as saying, 'If these work for primates, then they are potential treatments for humans,' this insight apparently being a startling departure from ordinary scientific logic. The article quoted Harvard ethnobotanist Shawn Sigstedt suggesting that bears may have taught the Navajos to use a species of the Ligusticum plant, just as they had claimed! For Western peoples, the announcemnet of zoopharmacognosy may be an exciting breakthrough on the frontiers of science, but getting information from birds and animals regarding plants is an absurdly self-evident propostion for American Indians. It gives substance to the idea that all things are related, and it is the basis for many tribal traditions regarding medicinal uses of plants. The excitement illustrates a point made above: Why didn't people take Indians seriously when we said that animals and birds give us information on medicinal plants? Why is such knowledge only valid and valuable when white scientists document and articulate it?" -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"... even when Indian ideas are demonstrated to be correct there is the racist propensity to argue that the Indian understanding was just an ad hoc lucky guess -- which is perilously close to what now passes for scientific knowledge." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

"If the tribal peoples actually represented Western origins at a much earlier time, it was exceedingly valuable that they should be studied intensely for clues about the nature and origin of human society. Consequently it was an injury to science and human knowledge to allow the military to simply exterminate them." -- Vine Deloria Jr., historian, 1997

All these quotes are now in the "Scientific Racism" section on the sidebar alongside Newtonian Holocaust denial.

32 comments:

Quantum_Flux said...

Oh, wow, how about something intelligent? African Fractals

OilIsMastery said...

Interesting that the white man thinks he knows more about African fractals than Africans themselves.

Is Professor Englash Jewish? Because if he is, according to mainstream science, he has no history and no credibility.

Quantum_Flux said...

Huh? There are a lot of religions that have no historical credibility OIM, including Judaism.

Jeffery Keown said...

Um...Wow.

Quantum_Flux said...

Peer review doesn't exactly allow for ghosts and goblins, mythical places such as heaven and hell, reincarnation, souls, angels and demons, crystals of chi, nor anything else of a supernatural explanation. Hence, a re-evaluation of the texts is entirely necessary to fit it into some form of naturalistic explanations.

OilIsMastery said...

QF,

"There are a lot of religions that have no historical credibility OIM, including Judaism."

According to you only white atheists have historical credibility so I'm puzzled why you believe in creationist gravitation.

OilIsMastery said...

QF,

"Peer review doesn't exactly allow for ghosts and goblins, mythical places such as heaven and hell, reincarnation, souls, angels and demons, crystals of chi, nor anything else of a supernatural explanation. Hence, a re-evaluation of the texts is entirely necessary to fit it into some form of naturalistic explanations."

Obviously their check wasn't written for a big enough number.

Quantum_Flux said...

Tornados look like flying saucers with tractor beams....perhaps that's what is on cave paintings?

To the untrained mind:

Hallucinations look a lot like miracles, volcanoes look a lot like fiery demons, earthquakes feel a lot like underground snakes, droubt seems a lot like an angry sun god, storms seem a lot like an angry rain god, hurricanes seem a lot like a raging beast of the sea, disease seems a lot like a metaphysical curse, mental disabilities or other abnormalities seems a lot like demon possessions, ships in the distance look a lot like moving islands, meteors look a lot like chariots in the sky, dark smoke from a fire looks a lot like pillars of heaven, etc...

OilIsMastery said...

QF,

"Hallucinations look a lot like miracles, volcanoes look a lot like fiery demons, earthquakes feel a lot like underground snakes, droubt seems a lot like an angry sun god, storms seem a lot like an angry rain god, hurricanes seem a lot like a raging beast of the sea, disease seems a lot like a metaphysical curse, mental disabilities or other abnormalities seems a lot like demon possessions, ships in the distance look a lot like moving islands, meteors look a lot like chariots in the sky, dark smoke from a fire looks a lot like pillars of heaven, etc..."

I guess that explains why people believe in gravitation and black holes.

Quantum_Flux said...

Gravitation is not a hallucination, drop an apple and it falls to the ground because of it.

OilIsMastery said...

QF,

Funny. Whenever I see astronauts drop apples on the ISS they don't fall to the ground because of it. You must be hallucinating.

Quantum_Flux said...

Drop an apple in gravitational orbit and it will fall around the Earth.

Quantum_Flux said...

Drop an apple in a free falling elevator and it will stay in place relative to the sides.

OilIsMastery said...

QF,

Drop an apple in between the moon and the Earth and what happens?

Jeffery Keown said...

It is no small wonder that you crawl in bed with Vine Deloria Jr. The man was a creationist wack job. He was a follower of Sitchin and Velikovsky.

So now you're going to tell us that the Bering Land Bridge was a myth?

"...tourists along the Bering straits were going TO Asia, not migrating FROM it."

So mankind was CREATED in America and went west. Bullshit. We are a species of African ape. All of us.

OilIsMastery said...

Jeffrey,

"The man was a creationist wack job."

According to you 99% of the world is creationist wack jobs. If I was racist against all non whites I would feel the same way. Ironic that you don't think Newton and the gravitation cult are "creationist wack jobs" (even though they are).

"So now you're going to tell us that the Bering Land Bridge was a myth?"

Only a creationist is gullible enough to believe that myth.

Quantum_Flux said...

Depends on where it is dropped relative to the Moon and the Earth, how fast you're moving when you drop it, whether there is any charge on the apple, etc.

Louis Hissink said...

OIM,

Suggest you get hold of Michael Talbot's "The Holographic Universe" and also Amit Goswmani's "The self aware Universe".

Both should help make some sense of the fractals.

OilIsMastery said...

QF,

Assume you are at rest with respect to the Earth and the moon, but closer to the moon than the Earth, and you drop an apple (neutral charge) what happens?

OilIsMastery said...

Louis,

Will definitely have to check those out....=)

Quantum_Flux said...

How much closer to the moon? 51% and you'd be falling in orbit around the Earth since that is far more massive. Still, it is tough to really be at rest with respect to the Earth and the Moon since they are in orbit about a common center of mass and because the orbits are elliptical instead of perfect circles. But let's just say that you are standing on the surface of the moon and you drop the apple, the apple will fall toward the moon. Somewhere between, closer to the Moon than to the Earth, the forces cancel each other out, but that is an unstable point where slight nudge in either direction will determine gravitational dominance.

Jeffery Keown said...

"According to you 99% of the world is creationist wack jobs."

I'd say the number is closer to 92%. A large number of whom are well-off white southern Americans. But a creationist is a beleiver of any religion.

It's not anything to do with skin color. Hell, you don't even know what color I am... as if it mattered... as I've said, we're all Africans. Do not, in the future, assume that I place any importance on the color of a person's skin or their country of origin.

You lose more credibility every day with this nonsense of yours.

OilIsMastery said...

Jeffery,

"I'd say the number is closer to 92%"

Vs. myself who only thinks about 1% of the world is wackjobs, namely Newtonian creationists and their esoteric cult.

"It's not anything to do with skin color."

I agree. Jews and Greeks are white and you think they are subhuman too.

"Do not, in the future, assume that I place any importance on the color of a person's skin or their country of origin."

What is one supposed to conclude from the fact that you think Jews, Christians, Native Americans, Aztecs, Mayans, Toltecs, Olmecs, Incas, Chinese, Hindus, Greeks, Egyptians, Sumerians, and Babylonians have no history and no science and that only white people have the right to history and science?

Jeffery Keown said...

What is one supposed to conclude from the fact that you think Jews, Christians, Native Americans, Aztecs, Mayans, Toltecs, Olmecs, Incas, Chinese, Hindus, Greeks, Egyptians, Sumerians, and Babylonians have no history and no science and that only white people have the right to history and science?

A lot of what they did was not science. They performed great feats of astronomy, engineering, chemistry and social organization that the so-called Modern world only recently caught up to. However, their religions are all bogus nonsense. Learn to separate the two concepts.

You are the one assuming this. You read whatever hateful motive you like into anything you read. You distort and twist everything you see in bizarre and frightening ways.

Please provide a quote where I said these folks had no history or science. You can't.

OilIsMastery said...

Jeffery,

"A lot of what they did was not science."

That's because according to you anything in the historical record, i.e. anything Jewish or non-white, is not science.

"They performed great feats of astronomy, engineering, chemistry and social organization that the so-called Modern world only recently caught up to."

Exactly 0% of it Newtonian and uniformitarian.

"However, their religions are all bogus nonsense."

But Newton's creationist gravitational religion you have no problem with.

"Learn to separate the two concepts."

Belief is blief whether it be religious or scientific, it's still just belief.

Quantum_Flux said...

I suppose you don't believe in the existance Gravitational Lagrange Points either. That doesn't mean that NASA doesn't take them seriously, they actually have plans for building future bases at those lagrange points.

Jeffery Keown said...

anything Jewish or non-white, is not science.

You're right... Einstein was Irish like me. So were Caro, Bodmer, Bethe, Born, Penzias, Kalam, Narlikar, Tyson, Michio Kaku, Ashketar, Chandrasekhar and a whole bunch more good ol' boys from down at the feed n' seed.

Your problem now, sir... You didn't comprehend a word I said. You never will. I asked you to quote me... which you can't... even though given eight minutes you seem to be able to find a quote to say anything you like. You're a troll... I'm through feeding your victimization.

Good luck. You just lost 1/4 of your readership.

OilIsMastery said...

QF,

"NASA doesn't take them seriously"

NASA takes Genesis seriously.

OilIsMastery said...

Jeffery,

"You didn't comprehend a word I said. You never will."

You can say that again.

"You just lost 1/4 of your readership."

If you actually read or understood a word of what I post you'd be agreeing with what I'm saying.

Fungus FitzJuggler III said...

Racism seems to be a big issue in the USA. I suppose that it is one way in which those who rule distract and play off one side against another.
It would only make sense in science if the useful portions of non-acceptable cultures were discovered, analyzed and then diguised or destroyed. There were some allegations f that in Iraq a few years ago with the museum business. And of course those electric cells you posted about.
The jews are only one tribe. Judah as in lion of. The eagle, Dan and all the rest seem to be awol!

Fungus FitzJuggler III said...

Vine DeLoria is quite correct at least in all his listed quotations! Thanks again!

Louis Hissink said...

I've managed to get copies of Deloria's 3 books from Amazon, and should have them in Oz in a few weeks time. His Red Earth, White lies seems an interesting book from a geological perspective.