Monday, March 22, 2010

Rene Noorbergen



"Our slot in the eons of unrecorded time has in fact become an age of slanted information. With ever-increasing frequency, new hypotheses are tested, current scientific theories modified, and new formulae constructed, but all with the aim of proving previously accepted theories...." -- Rene Noorbergen, author, Secrets of the Lost Races: New Discoveries of Advanced Technology in Ancient Times, 1977

"Our quest for knowledge and our memories have become one-sided, and this is precisely our problem." -- Rene Noorbergen, author, Secrets of the Lost Races: New Discoveries of Advanced Technology in Ancient Times, 1977

"For more than a century, orthodox historians essentially have dealt with only a single body of historical facts -- facts that meet the requirements of their preconceived hypothetical framework, telling them that man of today is the result of an evolutionary process that has brought us upward both intellectually and physically from a lower order of beings. Millions of years are involved in this hypothetical view of history, and even though the historians cannot draw the curtain of recorded history back further than 6,000 years, they steadfastly stick to their theories, for their programmed minds simply will not accept any other explanation for man's technological and cultural development." -- Rene Noorbergen, author, Secrets of the Lost Races: New Discoveries of Advanced Technology in Ancient Times, 1977

Noorbergen, R., Secrets of the Lost Races: New Discoveries of Advanced Technology in Ancient Civilizations, 1977

Did "they" really visit us in ancient times?

Is our technology a mere shadow of what "they" once taught us?

Are "they" perhaps still in communication with our civilization, or have "they" abandoned us -- forever?

Is it possible that the unidentified ancient artifacts attesting to a super-technological society belong to our own historical development?

Can it be that we have regressed instead of evolved? Have we lost more than we have gained?

Are we now again approaching the level of advancement and sophistication that led to a historical downfall of the human race?

19 comments:

Quantum_Flux said...

Can it be that we have regressed instead of evolved? Have we lost more than we have gained?

Perhaps, if evolutionary intelligence rises and falls like the stock market. Maybe intelligence is all relative to environmental circumstances. Leonardo Da Vinci's ideas would be considered sophomoric in modern times, perhaps just an art show at best.

Fungus FitzJuggler III said...

An interesting book. The new theory of biologists is that there was a time when a very few people, as few as 7. The say this is detectable due to lack of genetic diversity and that the subsequent divergences are regular and clocklike so that the bottle neck occurred 70,000 years or so ago. Vulcanologists say this was a result of Tombora, a super volcano in Indonesia. The bible appears to have passages that are divergent with the stories elsewhere, but only in the names of the survivors. The numbers are consistent. Even some of the names may be consistent. This appears to reflect development of languages and cultures since the Flood. Genesis has been moved from where it was originally. It actually records a catastrophe on the earth, witnessed by humans. Possibly the account of these survivors?

Jeffery Keown said...

The so-called Flood was a local phenomenon. It wasn't global. The bible is a distorted history of a single people, not the whole human species.

It is not scientifically valuable, except as history. Noorbergen treats it like it was undiluted fact.

OilIsMastery said...

Jeffery,

If the flood was local how come it was reported globally?

The whole world conspiring with the Jews again?

"The belief in a great deluge is not confined to one nation singly, the Tamanacs; it makes part of a system of historical tradition, of which we find scattered notions among the Maypures of the great cataracts; among the Indians of the Rio Erevato, which runs into the Caura; and among almost all the tribes of the upper Orinoco. When the Tamanacs are asked how the human race survived this great deluge, the 'age of water' of the Mexicans, they say, 'a man and a woman saved themselves on a high mountain, called Tamanacu, situated on the banks of the Asiveru....'" -- Alexander Von Humboldt, Personal Narrative, naturalist, 1852

Jeffery Keown said...

Why is there no mention of the Flood in the records of Egyptian or Mesopotamian civilizations which existed at the time? Biblical dates (I Kings 6:1, Gal 3:17, various generation lengths given in Genesis) place the Flood 1300 years before Solomon began the first temple. We can construct reliable chronologies for near Eastern history, particularly for Egypt, from many kinds of records from the literate cultures in the near East. These records are independent of, but supported by, dating methods such as dendrochronology and carbon-14. The building of the first temple can be dated to 950 B.C. +/- some small delta, placing the Flood around 2250 B.C. Unfortunately, the Egyptians (among others) have written records dating well back before 2250 B.C. (the Great Pyramid, for example dates to the 26th century B.C., 300 years before the Biblical date for the Flood). No sign in Egyptian inscriptions of this global flood around 2250 B.C.

How did the human population rebound so fast? Genealogies in Genesis put the Tower of Babel about 110 to 150 years after the Flood [Gen 10:25, 11:10-19]. How did the world population regrow so fast to make its construction (and the city around it) possible? Similarly, there would have been very few people around to build Stonehenge and the Pyramids, rebuild the Sumerian and Indus Valley civilizations, populate the Americas, etc.

Why do other flood myths vary so greatly from the Genesis account? Flood myths are fairly common worldwide, and if they came from a common source, we should expect similarities in most of them. Instead, the myths show great diversity. [Bailey, 1989, pp. 5-10; Isaak, 1997] For example, people survive on high land or trees in the myths about as often as on boats or rafts, and no other flood myth includes a covenant not to destroy all life again.

Why should we expect Genesis to be accurate? We know that other people's sacred stories change over time [Baaren, 1972] and that changes to the Genesis Flood story have occurred in later traditions [Ginzberg, 1909; Utley, 1961]. Is it not reasonable to assume that changes occurred between the story's origin and its being written down in its present form?

Many thanks to the TalkOrigins archives.

OilIsMastery said...

Jeffery,

Why does TalkOrigins ignore the American Indians? Are they racist?

"Why is there no mention of the Flood in the records of Egyptian or Mesopotamian civilizations which existed at the time?"

In fact there is:

"The first human king of Egypt, they said, was Min. In his time all of Egypt except the Thebaic district was a marsh: all the country that we now see was then covered by water...." -- Herodotus, historian, Book II, ~440-420 B.C.

"The priests of Sais, for example, told Solon, about 550 BC, that since Egypt was not subject to massive floods they had preserved, not only their own records, but those of other people; that the towns of Athens and Sais had been built by Minerva; the former nine thousand years ago, the second only eight thousand; and to these dates they added the well known fable of the people of the island of Atlas...." -- Georges Cuvier, naturalist, 1825

"I saw at once that I had here discovered a portion at least of the Chaldean account of the Deluge." -- George Smith, archaeologist, 1876

"The fragments of the Chaldean historian, Berosus, preserved in the works of various later writers, have shown that the Babylonians were acquainted with traditions referring to the Creation, the period before the Flood, the Deluge, and other matters forming parts of Genesis." -- George Smith, archaeologist, 1876

"In the reign of Osorkon II of the Libyan Dynasty [22nd Dynasty] in Egypt, in the third year, the first month of the second season, on the twelfth day, according to a damaged inscription, 'the flood came on, in this whole land ... this land was in its power like the sea; there was no dyke of the people to withstand its fury. All the people were like birds upon it ... the tempest ... suspended ... like heavens. All the temples of Thebes were like marshes.'" -- Immanuel Velikovsky, cosmologist, 1950

"The extent of the Sumerian flood was very substantial: a deposit 8-feet thick covering an area some 400 miles long by 100 miles wide -- a total of many billions of tons of material. And it was this discovery that sent a buzz through the corridors of uniformitarian geology. For here, at last, was evidence of a real Homo diluvii testis -- man a witness to the flood. Because this catastrophic event had occured in recorded history then -- uniquely in the geological record -- here was direct evidence of a substantial sediment that must have been laid down rapidly and all at once, rather than slowly over millions of years. And if this stratum then why not others?" -- Richard Milton, writer, 1992

De Nile isn't just a flooded river in Egypt.

OilIsMastery said...

"Why do other flood myths vary so greatly from the Genesis account?"

They don't. In fact they are all exactly the same.

"They make great mention of a deluge, which happened in their country ... The Indians say that all men were drowned in the deluge, and they report that out of Lake Titicaca came one Viracocha, who stayed in Tiahuanaco, where at this day there are to be seen ruins of ancient and very strange buildings, and from thence came to Cuzco, and so began to multiply." -- José de Acosta, priest, 1590

"The belief in a great deluge is not confined to one nation singly, the Tamanacs; it makes part of a system of historical tradition, of which we find scattered notions among the Maypures of the great cataracts; among the Indians of the Rio Erevato, which runs into the Caura; and among almost all the tribes of the upper Orinoco. When the Tamanacs are asked how the human race survived this great deluge, the 'age of water' of the Mexicans, they say, 'a man and a woman saved themselves on a high mountain, called Tamanacu, situated on the banks of the Asiveru....'" -- Alexander Von Humboldt, Personal Narrative, naturalist, 1852

"There is, however, one special tradition which seems to be more deeply impressed and more widely spread than any of the others. The destruction of well-nigh the whole human race, in an early age of the world's history, by a great deluge, appears to have impressed the minds of the few survivors, and seems to have been handed down to their children, in consequence, with such terror-struck impressiveness that their remote descendants of the present day have not even yet forgotten it. It appears in almost every mythology, and lives in the most distant countries and among the most barbarous tribes." -- Hugh Miller, geologist, The Testimony of the Rocks, 1892

"Geologists from earliest days, but especially from the eighteenth century (Baron Cuvier and others) recognized that a 'flood' had spread a blanket of 'drift' over Europe. Thus, it comes as no surprise that an 'event' 11,000 years ago had the energy and fluid medium to broadcast erratics and other debris in a thick blanket over southern Canada, the Great Lakes region, New England, the prairies of western Canada and the American midwest. Anyone who has pondered the well-established sudden disappearance from the region of whole species of the larger ungulates (elephants, camel, horse, sloth, etc.) and their predators, while the same families of creatures continued, apparently unaffected, elsewhere in the world, will find the 'flood' interpretation of prehistory convenient for explaining the facts." -- C. Warren Hunt, geologist, 1989

Jeffery Keown said...

So you beleive that the whole planet was underwater? Do you have something other than old quotes to back it up?

There is no physical evidence of a world-wide event.

OilIsMastery said...

"Flood legends appear in the mythology of so many cultures that a universal flood has often been invoked to explain their prevalence." -- Dorothy B. Vitaliano, geomythologist, 2007

OilIsMastery said...

Jeffery,

"There is no physical evidence of a world-wide event."

Except the historical record.

And scientists say otherwise.

Pearce, F., Ancient Flood Brought Gulf Stream to a Halt, New Scientist, Dec 2007

"Noah's flood is a story so compelling that for centuries it has demanded a scientific explanation. The story clearly refers to an inundation so large that its survivors assumed that the whole world had been affected. People have long sought to tie the Flood to a specific event and location, but only recently has a plausible explanation, based on sound scientific research, been proposed. Ryan & Pitman (1999) hypothesize that postglacial melting elevated sea levels to the extent that the Mediterranean broke through into the Black Sea depression, drowing out so many settlements that a universal flood legend resulted. I am not only convinced that this is the true explanation of the Flood, but I am also impressed with how quickly and effectively these two scientists have brought this long-elusive story into the realm of science-based geomythology." -- Dorothy B. Vitaliano, geomythologist, 2007

Quantum_Flux said...

Those flood stories are plaguerized from each other.

OilIsMastery said...

QF,

Did the Chinese and American Indians have timemachines and spaceships so they could plagiarize the Jews?

OilIsMastery said...

Did the Babylonians have timemachines to travel forward in time to plagiarize the Jews or did God give the Jews a timemachine again so they could conspire to plagiarize and corroborate global history?

Jeffery Keown said...

In fact they are all exactly the same.

Wrong. They do not all include boats, covenants with the Lord, or saving animals. Your global flood is a "wash," sorry.

Don't even get me started on Noah and the Ark... that's the worst story ever from a scientific POV. You can't, for even a second, explain how he gathered 2 (or 7) of every animal in one boat for 40 or 80 or 130 days.

You just can't. You can't.

OilIsMastery said...

Jeffery,

OK you're right. The only global flood accounts that include boats and the seeds of every animal and plant are the Babylonian account, the Persian account, the Hindu account, the Inca account, the Olmec account, the Maya account, the Aztec account, and the Jewish account.

Quantum_Flux said...

Plaguerism of an ancient myth.

Fungus FitzJuggler III said...

Plagiarism?

What a lame explanation. But revealing.

amphicoelias said...

Or perhaps Noah was a Martian?;)

"The total release of gases from Tharsis magma may have produced the equivalent of a global layer of water nearly 400 feet deep, although much of the water would have been lost to space, Phillips said." -Reuters, "Mars Calamity May Have Created Conditions for Life," NY Times 3/16/2001:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/16/science/16reuters-mars.html?pagewanted=1

Fungus FitzJuggler III said...

We know from recent discovery that there were glacial dams which burst during the warming period when the ice age ended.

These inundated the locality but would have created tsunami that may have travelled around the world a few times. Only those in high places or on boats, with cargo, survived.

Ring a bell, you ding dongs?